Apakah Fergie ikut bertanggung jawab atas penurunan United?

[fredrian.seven]

Ijin om moderator buat bikin thread baru. Eh, sebenernya ini pernah ada dulu di jaman Moyes dan judulnya "Did Sir Alex Ferguson set Moyes up for failure?".. Tapi sama moderator di merge ke thread Moyes Out padahal menurut ane topiknya berbeda.

Ini tulisan pengamat disono, jadi bukan tulisan ane. Ane hanya merasa tulisannya menarik aja dan mungkin temen2 punya pendapat sama atau berbeda.

Manchester United look devoid of verve and energy... so will Sir Alex Ferguson accept responsibility for the start of their decline?
ADRIAN DURHAM - dailymail

• Manchester United were beaten 2-1 by Bournemouth on Saturday evening
• Louis van Gaal has come in for a lot of criticism in the aftermath of defeat
• But Sir Alex Ferguson failed to leave a legacy when he left Old Trafford
• Legendary boss had lost touch with the modern game in his later years
• United's entire youth system has been left with an inferiority complex

How could Manchester United go from being champions in 2013 to being so unrecognisably bad now? Yes, Louis van Gaal is the first stop when it comes to taking responsibility for the current blunders but there is more to it than that.

I'm wondering if Sir Alex Ferguson is ready to put his hand up and accept some of the blame.

It seems a bit too easy to trot out the standard lines: 'Van Gaal is useless' or 'it's Wayne Rooney's fault'.

Some are so incredibly rude they're declaring Van Gaal is too old. Sharper analysis is required.

For such a great club to have fallen on such hard times (by their own extraordinarily high standards) and look so devoid of the verve and energy they used to have, must be down not just to what the current manager is doing. No, it must also involve more long-term mistakes and misguided thinking.

So yes, United were champions in 2013, but does that absolve Sir Alex from all the blame?

The problem at United is a culture issue: and there are three main features of the Manchester United identity which are hurting the club right now, and they're all related back to Fergie.

And of course, Sir Alex is a legend, who was a true great of the game - that doesn't change. But it doesn't mean we should gloss over or ignore mistakes he was making which have contributed to the current calamities:

1) Fergie had lost touch with the modern game and that lack of forward thinking has directly held the club back. Towards the end of his reign at Old Trafford he was still revered, every word was acknowledged like it was biblical.

But Fergie was from a different era, and consequently he declared he would never spend £50million-plus on a teenager (he was referring to Lucas Moura at the time), he was critical of certain agents and as a direct consequence United lost Paul Pogba. He couldn't understand the needs of his main player and consequently fell out with Rooney.

If you think that winning the title was a sign that all was well at Manchester United, then you're guilty of naive thinking.

So when Fergie left he had lost some great prospects coming through the ranks, one of the key players was disillusioned, and key members of the back four missed him so much they couldn't put in performances for anyone else.

Within a year Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra had all left. United had become all about Fergie, and as a consequence the club still struggles without him.

2) United's youth-team players and their whole youth set up has suffered an inferiority complex, as a direct result of Ferguson's mismanagement.

Allowing Pogba to leave was the biggest blunder. But in my opinion, Fergie also failed to work hard enough with Ravel Morrison. Two of the most talented footballers to come through the United youth system. Both needed seriously skilled management to ensure they would go on to display that potential for the benefit of Manchester United.

Fergie has revealed that he and Pogba's agent were like 'oil and water'. The realities of modern football mean managers must deal with agents they don't like. Fergie couldn't handle it, and United lost Pogba.

Morrison needed the kind of 24/7 handling that Fergie devoted to Ryan Giggs years ago. But Fergie had changed. He no longer ran the club from top to bottom, his omnipresence was long gone.

Bournemouth match-winner Josh King revealed as much after United's defeat on the south coast this weekend.

The consequences of Fergie losing Pogba and failing to manage the talents of Morrison were huge: coming through the youth team at United used to mean you could realise the dream of playing for the first team. Just ask Scholes, Neville and Beckham.

That's why the youngsters put in the hard work, and they were rewarded. Today, youth players at Manchester United will grow up thinking they're going to end up at Rotherham if they're lucky.

If Morrison and Pogba don't become United regulars, then what chance have the current crop got. Sure Jesse Lingard has made it – but is he the exception that proves the rule?

Of course he is: Cameron Borthwick-Jackson may have filled in briefly and admirably, but hand on heart do you think he will become a United regular? Most of the last United side to win the FA Youth Cup in 2011 have now left the club.

The youth system at United used to be the envy of the world: but terrific players from the academy started slipping through Fergie's fingers and all of a sudden its greatness was gone.

Now it's a supply line for lower clubs to pick up players. Van Gaal is trying to restore its importance, he's fielded a lot of young players in his time so far, but so much damage has been done, it could take some time.

To sum it up, I spoke to a coach this weekend who told me that one of United's most prominent youth-team players in recent years, who left the club to go down the leagues but is struggling, is technically good, but lacks character, application and bite.

That sums up exactly what has happened to the youth system in Fergie's later years at United – players coming through have software, but none of the hardware.

3) Ferguson left no legacy. He left behind a team of title winners, but it was also a squad of players who were either ageing, dependent on Fergie, or disillusioned.

No foundations for a rebuild were put in place and Sir Alex has escaped scrutiny for that error because of his undoubted greatness. There was no recruitment plan or structure.

He departed, David Gill went too, and the club has been flailing around in the dark ever since. The first signs of this came when United tried to sign Leighton Baines and Marouane Fellaini for £24m, and ended up paying £28m for Fellaini who can try all he likes, but he will never be good enough for Manchester United.

It's a preposterous sum for a player with no prospect of development, and limited scope of talent. The trophy count of a manager is important, but so is his legacy, and Fergie failed with the latter.

The biggest criticism is how he left the club after waving a white flag to the 'noisy neighbours'. Manchester City, on and off the field, are leaving United behind. Fergie was in a hurry when he knew he couldn't put up a fight. He left United floundering.

Van Gaal has to accept the blame for the failure in Europe and what looks like a side so dysfunctional I'm expecting it to crop up on an episode of the Jeremy Kyle show next week.

But the problem is much bigger: it's long term, and Ferguson started the decline.

sumber disini

[fredrian.seven]

Tulisan sejenis yang ditulis tahun 2013 dulu

Sir Alex Ferguson Failure to Learn Liverpool Lesson Contributes to Man Utd Toil
Philip Buckley - insidefutbol

They say that those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. But while the saying, memorably coined by American philosopher George Santayana, is often wheeled out to describe those who continually fail to learn from the mistakes of others and, unsurprisingly then fail themselves, the quote can also be viewed another way, telling those who are ready to learn from history what has worked in the past and is likely to work again in the future. As Manchester United toil under manager David Moyes, perhaps his predecessor Sir Alex Ferguson, keenly watching on from his leather backed seat in the Old Trafford directors’ box, should ponder on what he might have done differently to give his club the best chance of succeeding when he, as he always inevitably would, stood down.

Did Ferguson believe he could continue at Manchester United forever? It scarcely seems plausible that a man used to thinking three, even four steps ahead, would not consider a time when he would not be running the show at the team he did so much to elevate to one of the biggest clubs in the world. A stand named in his honour, a statue standing outside Old Trafford, even of late a road, Sir Alex Ferguson Way, leading to the ground, Ferguson’s legacy seems beyond reproach. But ironically, as the tightly woven cloth, containing a thread of dominance which ran through the club, unravels by the week, how Ferguson is viewed could change with the passage of time. It isn’t so much that Ferguson publicly claims to have handpicked Moyes, a cautious manager, unused to the expectations at such a club and with a European and domestic achievement list that wouldn’t trouble a one-eyed, one-armed, two-fingered stenographer, but that he should be there at all that is the very crux of a rather large matter.

How did Manchester United get to Moyes? Whispers point to Ferguson initially recommending Jose Mourinho to the Old Trafford board, but to a chorus of disapproval with concerns over the Portuguese’s flamboyant, controversy attracting nature. Next up was a trip to Paris to meet Carlo Ancelotti, said to have taken place in April and at which Ferguson is believed to have asked the Italian if he would like to be considered as his successor. But it was too late. Ancelotti had already committed himself to Real Madrid. And so Moyes fell onto Ferguson’s radar. Ferguson probably spent the flight back from Paris weighing up the pros and cons of giving his countryman the opportunity of a lifetime. Yet what he should have wondered as he sank a vintage red wine in the late spring skies was why he was on the flight at all, why there was ever any need for him to think of someone he had never worked with as the club’s prospective new manager. Manchester United were scurrying around in the dog days of Ferguson’s reign. Just where was the succession planning which must surely have, as in any large organisation, have been carried out?

Ferguson memorably mocked Manchester United’s fierce rivals Liverpool when at the height of his powers, commenting that he had knocked them off their perch. The Scot, who had taken over at Old Trafford in 1986, eventually led his side to dominate English football as the Reds declined. It is likely Ferguson thought more about why Liverpool went downhill, attributing it to an ageing team, a poor managerial choice in Graeme Souness and the failure of the Merseyside club’s board to be financially savvy off the pitch, in a way Manchester United were cracking each and every day,than why they were on a perch at all. Ferguson should have studied just why Liverpool were able to remain at the summit of English football from Bill Shankly establishing them as a force in the mid to late 1960s and early 1970s, to the Souness-led implosion in 1992. From 1973 until 1991 Liverpool only once finished outside the top two, and when they did in 1981, they won the European Cup. But while Manchester United’s success from the early 1990s until last year all came under Ferguson, Liverpool had four managers presiding over theirs. Liverpool created a famous ‘boot room’, which helped groom succeeding managers, from Shankly to Bob Paisley, from Paisley to Joe Fagan and from Fagan to Kenny Dalglish. Liverpool got it wrong when they went outside the club, outside the boot room, bringing in Souness who, although a former player, came filled with ideas from a spell in Italy with Sampdoria and a successful time in Scotland at Rangers. He was a disaster, thinking he knew better and sweeping away all that had worked for so long. And Manchester United may be walking a similar road.

But it didn’t have to be like this. Ferguson had long enough to create his own boot room. He had long enough to groom players for management, pick those who might succeed, and bring them into his inner circle. When the time was right, a rising managerial talent could have been picked and eased into position to succeed him. However, Ferguson’s former charges that have gone into management have proven to be dismal underachievers, failing to come anywhere close to persuading any of the biggest clubs in the land to entrust them with their reins. Bryan Robson, a former Manchester United captain, flopped at Middlesbrough, his most recent job at the international backwater that is Thailand. Steve Bruce, a trusty leader on the pitch for Ferguson, has proven himself suited to middling jobs, floating from sides like Birmingham City to Sunderland, now at Hull, while Mark Hughes, Paul Ince and Roy Keane all continue the trait of punching well below their playing career heights. None were ever in with a chance of succeeding Ferguson.

The legendary former Manchester United manager may have found it unkind to make any prospective future boss wait for over two decades as part of the coaching staff at Old Trafford, but the birds could have proven themselves elsewhere in time and then come home to roost just when needed the most. It is this failure to plan for the day he would not be there, a failure to develop any managerial talent approaching his own lofty level, that may see his legacy viewed in a different light if Moyes and his successors reduce the Red Devils to also-rans. In truth, the financial might of Manchester United makes it unlikely that they will repeat Liverpool’s woes of going over 20 years without a league title, but the dominance, the certainty that if not this year then next year, the inevitability that anyone who is destined to be anyone and has the choice will choose Old Trafford and order a medal cabinet not in hope but firm, understandable expectation, looks gone.

It didn’t have to be that way. Ferguson could have planned for the day he was destined to leave. As it was, as his car rolled out of Manchester United’s Carrington training ground and Moyes’s rolled in, out went his backroom staff too, with the new broom sweeping entirely clean. And that on its own is firm evidence of the lack of succession planning at a club worth more than £1 billion. Moyes ushered in his own team. Out went goalkeeping coach Eric Steele, assistant manager Mike Phelan and perhaps most importantly, a man feted for his superb coaching ability, first team coach Rene Meulensteen; none were keen on moving on. “I didn’t want to leave, why would I?” said Steele . “You’ve just been part of a team that has had a great season and won the league. David de Gea’s had his best season. Does it make sense that you’re not retained to continue the good work? Sadly, that’s out of my hands.” Moyes should surely have paused for thought. Even if he truly believed his Everton coaching staff were better than those who moulded, coaxed and ushered Ferguson’s crop towards trophy after trophy, he shooed away the very thing he should have worked hardest to keep: continuity.

Like a smoothly conducted baton change in an Olympic relay, Moyes would have done best to let the machine Ferguson built roll on, making only minor changes. That is certainly what Ferguson wanted, according to Steele. “You had the United perspective – the manager saying: ‘Keep what you’ve got, keep the continuity, work with them and they’ll guide you through. You’re taking on a massive machine here.” Why would Ferguson have recommended a man who would go against his advice? In the dying days of his regime, the veteran manager must have been haunted by his own failure to plan for the day he would leave. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. It increasingly seems as if Moyes has broken it. But the problem is, Ferguson let him.

A Moyes-led crumbling of fortress Old Trafford won’t damage Ferguson’s standing and with the Manchester United faithful; that must surely be secure and the Scot will continue to be rated as one of the best managers to have ever graced the English game. However, a lack of succession planning could take the gloss off his legacy and make for painful times ahead while he watches on from the comfort of the directors’ box. Increasingly his 26 years at Manchester United may come to be seen as an Alexander the Great style personal mission; a great man sweeping away all competition through brilliance and sheer force of will. When Alexander died all that he had accomplished was quickly rolled back with no clear heir. Only time will tell whether Manchester United are destined to suffer the same fate, or whether Ferguson did build a Roman-esque dynasty, of the type Liverpool feasted on until the early 1990s.

[fredrian.seven]

Opini yang hampir sama yang juga ditulis tahun 2013

Did Sir Alex Ferguson set Moyes up for failure?
Alex Martin - givemesport

David Moyes took on one of the hardest jobs in football when he succeeded Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United.

But the job wasn't just tough because he had to follow one of the most success managers in sport.

No, it was because Ferguson was departing Old Trafford just before a major cycle of transition in the team started.

Ferguson deserved to go out on a high and by winning the Premier League last season he did. His decision to leave was surely influenced by the fact that the ageing Manchester United team he built was at it's peak, ready to decline.

Moyes knew it.

He desperately flashed the cash in the summer in the hope of signing some major stars to plug gaps. He failed.

The Manchester United midfield still craves a creative force. The defence needs young blood and a lot of deadwood needs clearing out.

Did Ferguson take one look at this mess and decided he didn't want to commit to a tough couple of season's struggling to compete with the re-emerging forces of Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City? And was his decision to choose Moyes as his replacement ill-judged?

We know Moyes' managerial style is that of a slow-burner. His patient manner saw Everton slowly but surely rise up through the Premier League before they peaked by making the top four.

With the right funds they could have gone further, but no amount of money would have seen them get there quicker - smash-bang-wallop team building just isn't Moyes' thing.

That style would have fitted Manchester Unite perfectly as they crave the long-term stability Ferguson brought, but only if he inherited a team that could have given him five years without any major outgoings.

But in five years time you can expect Robin van Persie, Rio Ferdinand, Ryan Giggs and Nemanja Vidic to all be retired. These are key players that need potentially over £100m in transfer fees to replace.

Moyes simply doesn't have the reputation to tempt big stars to Old Trafford- at least not yet. He struggled in the summer with Cesc Fabregas and Thiago Alcantara both rejecting his advances.

Five years of trophy winning would have built the necessary reputation but he now faces a struggle to bring in stars without credible experience of managing a winning team.

If Manchester United fail to win a trophy this season it will see the start of a vicious cycle where Manchester United's reputation declines and more and more players opt for other clubs.

A manager with a big reputation, known for making big changes early on in his managerial reign would have been a better stop gap to carry United through what was always going to be a difficult period for the club.

Maybe Ferguson should have given United a few more years, building a young, talented team that Moyes could take forward. But he has made his bed and, unfortunately, it is Moyes who has to lie in it.

[fredrian.seven]

Jadi, setujukah klo dibilang Fergie ikut bertanggung jawab atas kondisi United saat ini? Dia yang membangkitkan tapi dia juga yang ikut mengawali kemunduran. "Tuduhan" yang berat juga.

[victory II]

salahnya SAF adalah tidak mau menambal kekurangan lini tengah yang jelas2 butuh tambalan sana sini.

Kekeuh bilang gelandang tengah cukup, padahal yg berkualitas cuma Carrick. Sehebat2nya Scholes tetep kakinya udah berusia 37 tahun dan Giggs nyaris 40 tahun. Anderson, Clev, Fletcher tidak akan pernah bs bersaing dengan gelandang top eropa. Sayap sebagai serangan andalan cuma ada Valencia, Young dan "the next yang ga pernah jadi next Cristiano" aka Nani.

Bisa sih sekedar juara lokal, tapi itu murni karena jeniusnya SAF. Hanya 'bermodalkan' RvP bisa dapet gelar ke-20. Gila.

sayangnya kejeniusan SAF tidak bisa ditularkan ke Moyes, ada sih yang bilang Moyes jenius, tentunya semua paham itu dalam artian sarkastik.

Jadi, jawaban gw "ya, SAF ikut bertanggung jawab"

[theater of dream]

Ahhh ngga lah..
yang salah tu ya Moyes yang sudah bikin skuat Juara jadi hancur2an, yang bikin moral pemain ambruk sampai ke titik nol...

[eyeofday]

Kalau tidak salah di otobiografinya SAF mengaku sudah menyiapkan kondisi terbaik sebagai dasar manajerial selanjutnya. Tapi entahlah detail-detailnya. Artikel yg dibagi om Fred yang paling atas masuk akal juga.

oot.
Kalau pada akhirnya LVG diberhentikan sebelum musim berakhir, seberapa besar toleransi fans/board kepada manajer berikutnya?

[and1]

Sir Alex yg terlalu jenius, bisa bersaing & juara di musim terakhirnya dg kombinasi pemain yg "biasa saja" seperti Cleverley, Anderson, Nani, Rafael, Evans, Fletcher + pemain papan atas seperti Rooney, Van Persie, Vidic, De Gea, Ferdinand dg dimentori oleh Giggs & Scholes

jadi mgkn di mata Sir Alex kombinasi pemain2 tersebut (minus Scholes yg pensiun) cukup bagus & bisa bersaing di liga, sayang pd kenyataannya Moyes gagal total

[J. A. Adji]

Fergie itu zona nyamannya MU. Dn skrg MU keluar dr zona nyaman.

Pelajaran berharga sehebat apapun n seberapa bnyk pun gelar yg dipersembahkn seorang pelatih, United tdk boleh tahan pelatih lebih dr 5 tahun. Sepakbola sdh modern, perubahan rejim sekalipun prestasinya top adalah tuntutan jaman.

[Ardiey11]

pandangan pribadi saya tentang ini SAF tidak bisa di salahkan.
Krn kita tau kualitas pemain yg ada SAF bisa merengkuh juara, permasalahan yg di hadapi Moyes saat itu menurut saya ego besar pemain veteran yg "kurang" mendukung kedatangan pelatih baru. Terlihat dr betapa tidak akurnya antara Rio dan Moyes, dan bisa jadi dari sini sedikit banyak bisa mempengaruhi rekan tim yg lain. Praktis cm Fellaini yg benar2 bermain sepenuh hati u/ moyes yg notabennya jadi anak emas di club sebelumnya (meski low perform), dan Juan Mata pembelian pertengahan musim yg ingin membuktikan diri setelah kurang dapat kesempatan di tim sebelumnya.
Dan bila di lempar lagi jauh ke musim '12/'13 saat SAF pensiun dg perform pemain United sekarang, semakin tak masuk akal bila ingin menyalahkan SAF. Dari kaca mata saya, 1. Kesalahan kebijakan transfer pemain MU. 2. Terlalu monoton formasi yg di miliki LvG. 3. Tidak ada mental pemain yg mampu mengubah arah permainan.
*SruputKopi*