United Indonesia - Manchester United Indonesia Supporters Club
Register
Go Back   United Indonesia - Manchester United Indonesia Supporters Club > INSIDE MANCHESTER UNITED > United News > Archives > Archives 2014/2015

Old 02-09-2014, 11:52 PM   #1
Zulfan
first team
-
 
 
Zulfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Medan
Posts: 1,497
Thanks: 0
Thanked 45 Times in 37 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Zulfan is just really niceZulfan is just really niceZulfan is just really niceZulfan is just really niceZulfan is just really nice
Visit Zulfan's Twitter
Question Manchester United - What People Say Now

Thread ini saya buat untuk menampung/menghimpun komentar para "ahli" dunia sepakbola tentang situasi Manchester United saat ini.
Sebelumnya saya melihat tempat Fans Talk untuk tempat thread ini, tetapi yang ingin saya tampilkan bukanlah artikel buatan saya, tetapi mengutip omongan orang lain saja.
Jika thread ini tidak tepat untuk ditempatkan di sini, mohon moderator berkenan memindahkannya ke subforum yang lebih tepat.

Manchester United - ♪ Mau Dibawa Kemana... ♫

Mantan asisten manajer Manchester United, Mike Phelan, tak ragu menyebut klub lamanya itu telah kehilangan identitas dengan membiarkan Danny Welbeck pergi ke Arsenal.

Seperti diketahui, Welbeck baru saja mengamankan kepindahan dari United ke Arsenal setelah ditebus di kisaran £16 juta pada deadline day semalam, di mana klub yang bermarkas di Old Trafford itu lantas menggantinya dengan Radamel Falcao.

Mengetahui pemain didikan akademi United itu pindah ke klub rival, Phelan lantas menyebut Setan Merah telah kehilangan identitas mengingat Welbeck adalah bagian dari klub itu sendiri.

“Danny Welbeck adalah bagian dari identitas United dan itu kini telah hancur,” ujar Phelan kepada BBC Sport. “Apa yang akan terjadi di masa depan tidak ada seorang pun yang tahu, namun yang pasti identitas itu sekarang telah hilang.”
Zulfan is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 02:09 AM   #2
rondwisan
moderator
udah sebelas yaa :)
 
 
rondwisan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Soe Rock Bo Yo - Nga Lam vv
Posts: 35,048
Thanks: 1,500
Thanked 4,736 Times in 2,701 Posts
Mentioned: 567 Post(s)
rondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond repute
Visit rondwisan's Facebook Visit rondwisan's Twitter
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

What people say now .... ??
Jelas banyak opini yg akan menyeruak lah, baik yg pro maupun kontra ...

* It's not United way !
* United on the right track to do this
* United loose their identity

Macem2 deh ..., itu yg dari sisi United, fans, mantan pemain, pelatih, etc
Belum lagi yg dari haters, masalah belanja jor2an lah, break transfer record lah, mulai ngikut money talk etc etc

Gw sih sementara ngeliatnya simple aja, management United yg salama ini dianggap memiliki "passion" yg rendah terhadap sepak bola itu sendiri (lebih mementingkan bisnis), sepertinya mulai merubah paradigmanya, United udah naek kelas di sisi pandang mereka (Woodward, Glazer cs), dari sekedar commodity udah lebih dipandang sebagai asset
Mungkin akan ada yg jadi tumbal (terutama yg paling disorot akademia / United youth palyers ~ tapi ini silaken dibahas di thread laen ya), tapi yg jelas setelah Era Opa Alex berakhir, beralih ke Chosen One (yg bisa jadi masa transisi yg udah kelihatan hasilnya (kebetulan negatif )), dan kini United seperti kembali bergairah diawali dengan kehadiran LvG, dan dilanjutkan pembelian pemain2 kelas dunia yg mungkin kita masih belum bisa menerima, dan tentunya over haul / perombakan di skuad dengan adanya beberapa pemain 'idola' fans maupun 'putra daerah' yg terpaksa dilepas

The show must go on, bola harus terus digulirkan (ง'̀⌣'́)ง
rondwisan is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 06:54 AM   #3
fredrian.seven
captain
Welcome Mou
 
 
fredrian.seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: 10km dari Bintaro Plaza ke arah Ciledug :))
Posts: 11,212
Thanks: 1,240
Thanked 857 Times in 606 Posts
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
fredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant futurefredrian.seven has a brilliant future
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

"United telah kehilangan identitas", emang identitas apaan? Nggak paham. Jangan2 identitas sebagai no 1 dan jadi no 7.

LVG dulu pernah bilang kloo fokus jangka pendek dia adalah tim utama. ‘The owners and CEO have asked (me to) give advice. But the main product is the first team. The youth is more long term. In the first two years we might have to separate them. Entah ini relevan atau nggak untuk kondisi saat ini. Tapi apa yang dilakukan LVG bisa jadi sejalan dengan kata2 dia. Fokus dia untuk tim utama. Mengembalilan status United sebagai tim terbaik. Salah satu caranya ya membangun tim untuk itu. Dari kebijakan transfer United saat ini rasanya bisa diambil kesimpulan gimana kualitas tim United menurut LVG. Dan sangat wajar klo LVG merombak itu.

Ataukah identitas United yang rutin menggunakan pemain binaan sendiri? Rasanya tidak begitu aja dihapus. Masih banyak pemain di reserve yang potensial. Dari segi sejarah LVG juga dikenal tidak taku memberi kesempatan ke pemain muda itu. Jadi masih ada harapan buat pemain muda itu. Toh dengan lepasnya Welbeck (dan Cleverley) justru akan memberi hal positif buat pemain muda. Kesempatan buat mereka lebih terbuka karena pemain rata2 ilang dan sedikit berkurang saingan mereka.

Jadi, identitas apa? Nggak paham. Hanya saja aku lebih sreg jangka pendek mengembalilan identitas United sebagai tim no 1 dan jangka panjang melibatkan pemain muda binaan sendiri.

Sorry klo OOT bin nggak nyambung.
fredrian.seven is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 07:09 AM   #4
rondwisan
moderator
udah sebelas yaa :)
 
 
rondwisan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Soe Rock Bo Yo - Nga Lam vv
Posts: 35,048
Thanks: 1,500
Thanked 4,736 Times in 2,701 Posts
Mentioned: 567 Post(s)
rondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond reputerondwisan has a reputation beyond repute
Visit rondwisan's Facebook Visit rondwisan's Twitter
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now


Worldsoccertalk.com - September 2, 2014 by Peter Quinn
Manchester United’s Identity Has Not Been ‘Broken’ By Big Spending, It Is Being Fixed

Following the resolution of Radamel Falcao’s season-long loan switch from AS Monaco which completed Manchester United’s sixth signing of the summer, some fans and members of the media have labeled the club’s transfer spending spree as a ‘galactico’ policy.


After news of Danny Welbeck’s departure to league-rivals Arsenal, former United assistant manager Mike Phelan said he feels part of the club’s identity “has been broken”.

“They have probably lost the way of Manchester United a little bit,” Phelan said told BBC Sport. “Now, rather that produce, it may be the case where they are buying in.”

“What will happen in the future now, nobody knows. But that thread has been broken now.”

But United’s identity wasn’t broken by the club’s summer spending, it was damaged by years of neglect.

United have had a policy of developing home-grown talent over the years, from the Busby Babes to the Class of ’92. But the club have also spent money on big-name signings when it was necessary. So what has happened over the past several months is nothing new.

The overhaul of United’s squad has been something in the making for the past few seasons, but for whatever reason, the club failed to address the issue until now. That hesitancy has left the twenty-time champions scrambling to field a first team that can compete on the highest level of European football.

Yes, United won the Premier League by a comfortable margin two years ago. But many of those players were on board last season as the club fell to a disappointing seventh place finish in the league under David Moyes.

Part of the blame can be placed on Moyes. But very few could argue that United’s squad wasn’t aging and/or up to the standards required to compete on the highest level of the sport.

Outside of Wayne Rooney, Robin van Persie and David de Gea, it would be hard to find a United player who would see first team action at a major European club.

Of course, a club doesn’t need marquee players dotting its roster in order to compete for domestic or European titles. But United’s “home-grown youth” and the players the club has acquired over the past few seasons are not on the same level as those at other top English or European sides.

They also haven’t shown a chemistry or ability to adapt to new leadership following the retirement of Sir Alex Ferguson.

So it is time for new blood.

Louis van Gaal kept to his word and gave United’s players time to prove they could grasp a new philosophy and show some kind of progress towards helping the club retain its elite status. Some players have remained, a lot of have left and six additions were brought in during the summer window.

Van Gaal also retained Ryan Giggs, who serves the club as assistant manager and is never more than a shoulder’s length away from the Dutch boss during matches. The new United manager relies heavily on the knowledge and understanding of the club that Giggs brings.

Fans and experts have been crying out for an overhaul of the squad for a few years. But now that it has finally started to happen, the issue has become, “United has broken from its identity”.

That’s nonsense.

Van Gaal has kept a handful of United’s younger players and some (such as Tyler Blackett) have shown signs of being able to compete with England and Europe’s best players. But the others just weren’t up to snuff, or wouldn’t except a lesser role in the squad, so they had to leave. It’s that simple.

The Dutch manager previously stated that he plans to improve United from the youth academy all the way through the senior squad. But for now, Van Gaal’s priority is correcting what is wrong with the first team and leading United back into the Champions League. It was something he addressed in his very first press conference as manager.

Van Gaal was asked, “Will your philosophy extend all the way to the youth team?” The United boss responded: “The club have asked me to give advice but the main project is the first team. That’s more of a short-term [thing] than the youth – that’s a long term project. The first year or two years we have to separate them [the two projects]. Now, I need all my knowledge to transfer my philosophy into this selection.”

Outside of Falcao (who is 28), United have brought in young players who will immediately help the club challenge for titles over the next four to five years. That is a policy that was adopted by Sir Alex Ferguson and is being continued under Van Gaal.

Despite the summer signings, by no means is the club’s work done. During the next two transfer windows, United need to complete their midfield and find at least two more centre-backs before they can be considered serious title challengers. But the moves the club has made over the past few months has given United a shot at returning to European competition next season.

Until then, the club’s signings and the remaining United players (academy, reserves and first team players) will have to continue improving their chemistry and their understanding of Van Gaal’s footballing philosophy.

United’s identity has not been broken by the club’s summer spending, it’s being fixed.
rondwisan is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 07:26 AM   #5
theater of dream
moderator
Come on beibeh......
 
 
theater of dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Somewhere out of Pekanbaru
Posts: 15,020
Thanks: 391
Thanked 1,219 Times in 846 Posts
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
theater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant futuretheater of dream has a brilliant future


Visit theater of dream's Facebook Visit theater of dream's Twitter
Default

Kalo sekedar Welbeck yang dijual ke Arsenal saya rasa ngga juga lah bisa dibilang United kehilangan identitas, memang benar Welbeck pemain binaan dan punya skill lumayan dibanding pemain seangkatan nya di Akademi, tapi secara kualitas dia hanya pemain bagus yang gak mampu menembus tim Utama United..
Dia bukan semacam indispensable player jdi masih wajar lah soal penjualan nya..
__________________
Liverpool last won the League when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
theater of dream is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 08:01 AM   #6
bmanutd
newbie
-
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Jakarta Barat, DKI Jakarta
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
bmanutd has no contributions yet
Talking Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

Saya setuju dengan pendapat bro fredrian.seven dan rondwisan (dan juga Peter Quinn...), prioritas LVG jangka pendek adalah mengembalikan Manchester United ke kompetisi bergengsi di Eropa dan bermain untuk menjadi juara di liga domestik, memang akan ada orang yang mengkritik penjualan beberapa pemain muda bekas binaan sendiri, tetapi kita juga harus berpikir secara logis bahwa tidak mungkin setiap tahun akademi sepakbola menghasilkan pemain muda yang berkelas dunia, ada kalanya akademi sepakbola hanya menghasilkan pemain muda yang berkualitas bagus, not great, and to challenge the best teams in the world we'll need great players...

Masalahnya di beberapa musim terakhir Manchester United hanya bermain dengan good players, not great. Mungkin SAF bisa membuat pemain2 tersebut menjuarai liga domestik di musim terakhirnya (mungkin masalah motivasi???), tetapi saat mulai dipegang oleh David Moyes masalah langsung muncul ke permukaan sampai pada puncaknya adalah tidak bermain di kompetisi di Eropa.

Mungkin karena LVG dikenal sering mem-belandanisasi-kan tim yang dipegangnya maka muncul pendapat2 yang menkritik kebijakan pembelian pemain Manchester United di musim ini, tetapi menurut Saya jalur yang diambil LVG sudah benar, toh LVG juga terkenal tidak sungkan memberikan kesempatan bermain kepada pemain muda dan sudah dibuktikan juga dengan memainkan Tyler Blackett di tim utama. Jadi, buat Saya pembelian pemain di musim ini menunjukkan ambisi LVG dan pemilik (walau mungkin ambisinya muncul hanya karena tidak lolos ke liga champions dan terancam sama sangsi di kontrak sponsor...), apalagi semua pembelian pemain juga sesuai dengan visi Manchester United yang membeli pemain maksimal berumur 27 tahun (kecuali Falcao, tetapi itupun pake sistem coba dulu baru beli...)

GGMU!!!
bmanutd is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:03 AM   #7
d10neladitya
academy
@d10neladitya
 
 
d10neladitya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cimahi, Indonesia
Posts: 447
Thanks: 275
Thanked 240 Times in 36 Posts
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
d10neladitya is a jewel in the roughd10neladitya is a jewel in the roughd10neladitya is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

para haters sekarang semakin menjadi2 melihat aktivitas transfer MU musim ini..
ditambah lagi belum pernah menang di 4 laga kompetitif dan kalah telak dari tim kasta ketiga..
tapi apapun kata mereka gelar juara itu ditentukan sampai GW 38 nanti bukan di GW 3 ini..
mungkin di akhir nanti kita yang akan tertawa dan mereka akan menangis..
Glory Glory
d10neladitya is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 11:08 AM   #8
troy andreas
moderator
min tolong ket sekum diremove.
 
 
troy andreas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Far away from Tomohon
Posts: 9,233
Thanks: 2,370
Thanked 1,947 Times in 1,102 Posts
Mentioned: 273 Post(s)
troy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant futuretroy andreas has a brilliant future


Visit troy andreas's Twitter
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

Jarang- jarang sepaham dengan oom Dedi soal academy graduated tapi kali ini saya sangat setuju.

Memang sedih melihat Welbeck pergi, selain ia academy graduated ia juga anak Manchester asli. Tapi kepergiannya disisi lain buka ruang untuk James Wilson, Demetri Mitchell bahkan Januzaj ditim utama.

Memang disisi lain juga saya merasakan sendiri dibully fans lain yang tau United gak hobby belanja gede seperti musim ini namun seperti yang diatas saya melihat ini sebagai proyek jangka pendek utk bawa United ke top 4. Proyek jangka panjang diacademy sendiri masih banyak pemain bagus, Welbeck pergi masih ada Januzaj & Wilson, Lawrence pergi masih ada Lingard & Mitchell. Belum lagi Perreira, Rothwell (manchunian kaya Welbo), Pearson, Thorpe dkk.

Semalam baca data dari tua-tua pecinta United academy, 80% tim Premier League menggunakan/ ada academy graduated dari Carrington jadi saya menganggap yang tersisa itu untuk proyek jangka panjang. Lagipula yang dibeli kaya Shaw saya nilai akan sama dengan Rio dulu sbg bentuk investasi jangka panjang.
troy andreas is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 11:40 AM   #9
and1
first team
Manchester is My Heaven
 
 
and1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solo - Bandung
Posts: 3,846
Thanks: 415
Thanked 550 Times in 208 Posts
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
and1 is a name known to alland1 is a name known to alland1 is a name known to alland1 is a name known to alland1 is a name known to alland1 is a name known to alland1 is a name known to all
Visit and1's Twitter
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

menurut saya sih ga ada yg salah dg penjualan welbeck, dg adanya rooney, van persie & falcao praktis kesempatan maen welbeck akan berkurang dan mau ga mau opsi terbaiknya memang pindah

welbeck bakal dpt kesempatan tampil lbh bnyk di arsenal dan united bisa menambah jam terbang james wilson (yg menurut saya striker dg prospek bagus di masa depan)

tim ini kalo diibaratkan kapal, udah sedikit "salah jalan", jadi utk jangka pendek setidaknya utk mengembalikan statusnya mjd klub yg masuk persaingan juara, solusinya ya beli pemain world class
__________________
Manchester is My Heaven
and1 is offline  
Old 03-09-2014, 01:19 PM   #10
zudomiriku
moderator
Happy New Year 2023
 
 
zudomiriku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kemang(gisan)
Posts: 24,492
Thanks: 5,047
Thanked 1,785 Times in 921 Posts
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
zudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond reputezudomiriku has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Manchester United - What People Say Now

Manchester United have LOST their way, blasts Mike Phelan after Danny Welbeck, Radamel Falcao and Angel di Maria deals

* Manchester United spent over £150m on new signings this summer transfer window
* In addition to a £59.7m deal for Angel di Maria, Man Utd also spent big money on the likes of Luke Shaw and Ander Herrera
* Mike Phelan has criticised the club, suggesting Man Utd's transfer business shows a lack of faith in their academy system and homegrown players
* Louis van Gaal is yet to win a competitive game for Man Utd


Manchester United have 'lost the way a little bit' by offloading homegrown Danny Welbeck to Premier League rivals Arsenal and spending extravagantly to bring in players like Angel di Maria and Radamel Falcao, according to former assistant manager Mike Phelan.

England striker Welbeck, a product of United's Academy who scored 29 goals in 142 first-team appearances, was sold to Arsenal on transfer deadline day on Monday.

While Welbeck headed to London, United were busy splashing the cash by sealing deals for Dutch utility player Daley Blind and Colombia striker Falcao, who has joined on a season-long loan.

United, yet to win in the Premier League under new manager Louis Van Gaal and with no European football at Old Trafford, have spent big in a bid to quickly get back on track following their seventh place finish last season.

Van Gaal's summer spending spree surpassed £150million, with a British transfer record of £59.7m pounds paid to lure Di Maria from Real Madrid. United also signed Ander Herrera, Luke Shaw and Marcus Rojo.

Phelan suggested it showed a lack of faith in United's youth system, renowned in the past for its production line of world-class talent like David Beckham, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes.


Concerns: Mike Phelan says Manchester United have lost their way a little bit

'Interesting how things have changed at Manchester United now. A good young kid (Welbeck) coming through - part of the academy system - and they've finally decided now that might not be the way to go so they've moved him on,' Phelan, Alex Ferguson's right-hand man at Old Trafford between 2008 and 2013, told BBC Radio 5 Live.

'Obviously there is more and more money now in the game, looking further and further afield for players but probably they have lost the way of Manchester United a little bit in the fact that now rather than produce it may be the case where they're buying in.

'One of the issues of the Premier League at the moment, and with English football at the moment, is getting them on to the football field, promoting them that way and waiting for those opportunities, providing the time and that hasn't happened.'

Phelan said United's big spending now reflected a philosophy of wanting instant success under Van Gaal after the former champions stagnated under Ferguson's successor David Moyes.

'It's success now, and not later. In Danny's case. He's had a good run at it, he's come through the system... there's other kids there now in the system who will hopefully get a chance but there's been a lot of cash splashed out in the transfer window and I'm sure that will only get worse.'

Former United youth team coach Eric Harrison has also shared his concern over the Red Devils' big spending this summer.

He told the Manchester Evening News: 'I am very concerned to be honest.
'I cannot believe Danny Welbeck has gone. Okay he might not have been a prolific goalscorer but his work rate and effort was undeniable.

'There was a place for him and I am not too pleased he’s gone to Arsenal. It is sending out the wrong message when local home grown players like that are leaving.'

Code:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2740629/Angel-di-Maria-Radamel-Falcao-signings-Man-United-lost-way.html
__________________
UNITED INDONESIA GO GREEN
zudomiriku is offline  
 


(View-All Members who have read this thread : 84
Aba_MaczUnited, achmad.zaky, adhe united macz, akhu93, Alphin Ambo, and1, andrastudio, Ardiey11, arindramp, atticus.finch, ayahocta, badehul, balfas88, bangkit, bang_zak, Blacklist7, bmanutd, Bulma, Cansa24, chincarito, CurlHargo, d10neladitya, davit styo, DeriEdmon17, dhodoadrian, dwitri27, ecly_watchaa, endhy_cantona, eyeofday, fadlysyah, Fajar_, fajrinited, farian23, ferly_Liemz, fey777, fredrian.seven, gery27, goodmin, Gustar_UIBontang, h-ANG, HaRrY-UIK, HenryRooney07, id4y, IqbaLamato, jifortin, khairankasira, kobe1928, kurosagi86, Lang25, mousetrap, mygalzbiatch, nemanjaviniC, normansyahrizal, Om Juna, paiman, penk22_, prahmono, Red Stain, revald, reynaldjhonson, rio vander vidic, ronald hars, Ryan_lallo, S Juan Ahmad, Sacri, sepatu_ancur, skatesore, stamansa, sutimbul, tasho, theater of dream, Trezz Kiko, tumpal_oneunited, UNITED1878, unreal, Yayat Dg Kulle, yuzknight, Zee de Wazza, zudomiriku, Zulfan
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 05:06 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
United Indonesia - Manchester United Supporters Club of Indonesia